True Personality Typing

STUDY NOTES POST #9: HOW PEOPLE DID, IN TYPING ME AS A FICTIONAL CHARACTER

There was this one post in the Attitudinal Psyche Facebook group, where the person asked an interesting question: " How do you think the folks on Personality Database would type you if you were a fictional character?" There is a person from my dreams (part fictional, part real) who is also my typology twin. We met him earlier, in the "One family, 3 ESFPs" post. He was Arvid, Jr., the one who preferred to be called Arvid because "that was his name ". Funny how we're similar, even down to that. I'm the same way with my name 🤣

Anyway, I found a typing questionnaire online, and posted it several places: in some discord servers I knew had Personality Database type description typists, in the Attitudinal Psyche Facebook group, where I knew theory typists hang, and on Reddit, where I was likely to get both. Here is the questionnaire, and the answers:

I knew I was hard to type, but I didn't realize how hard until nearly everyone failed to type me correctly when I was a fictional character.

So if I had to pick one thing in Arvid's typology/my typology that threw off the typing for most people, it is that we're both social blind 3s. Somebody even confessed that they could clearly understand the whole typology once they knew they were dealing with a social blind 3. It just shows how flawed some 3 descriptions are, if people can't imagine 3s being social blind.

So anyway, now, I'm going to go through the parts of a Personality Database typing that can be gleaned from the questionnaire, and write what people should have seen, and then what they did see

MBTI: ESFP Yes, as we all know from the post I shared earlier, Arvid was an ESFP. However, I don't know how many people typed him as an ISTJ. I have no idea where they got the thinking from, except maybe the correlations, correlating ISTJ to his incorrect Enneagram. My answer to question number 6 is a dead giveaway he was a feeler, and I'm sure the answers to some other questions probably also suggested feeling>thinking. Other answers I got were INTJ and ISFP. How they missed the obvious Se dominance is beyond me

Enneagram: 3w4 sx/sp 3(6?7?)9 While I am clearly 379 in my tritype, Arvid could have also possibly been the 369 tritype instead of 379, as it's not clear whether his head fix is 6 or 7. In my case , my head is clearly 7, which is the one possible difference in our typology (just that one number). Anyway, nearly everyone got the sp/sx right. Two people in the Enneagram group on Reddit got the core right (3), but were newbies, so they didn't try to type anything beyond there. Everything else said about his Enneagram was incorrect. When I pointed out he was a 3 and sx/sp, people's eyes were then opened, and they could totally see 3w4 sx/sp. The top incorrect answer given was 6w5 sx/sp 613. I also had people typing him as a 9 and a 5. I think one person typed him as a 1.

Socionics: SEE (And yes, I've been able to confirm my Socionics is in fact SEE ) There was one person who actually said he was SEE. They got it right. Everybody else was wrong. The most common answer was LSI ( once again, where's the thinking?) Other incorrect answers were ESI, SEI and SLI. I also don't know where everyone got the idea he was introverted

Attitudinal Psyche/Psychosophy: EFVL Only one person got this right. They were the first person who responded in the Attitudinal Psyche group on Reddit. The most common wrong answer was FEVL, but the answer I put for number 8 is a pretty clear indication of 1E. It's also pretty obvious he's 2F with his openness and experimentation in the realm of physics. Other incorrect answers were VFEL, VFLE, LFVE and FELV. I think one person might have even responded FLEV, if I remember correctly

Classic Jungian: ES(F) Only one person took a stab at this one, and got it right. I'm pretty sure they were also the one who said he was SEE in Socionics. Go figure.

So yes, that was a summary of how people typed Arvid based on the questionnaire, and thus how they would likely type me if I were a fictional character

Here's a picture I drew of Arvid, so he could be visualized:

Here's a link to the original blog post where I talk about him:

I hope you enjoyed reading about my experiment

STUDY NOTES POST #8: RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN SOJT AND THE ENNEAGRAM, ATTIDUINAL PSYCHE AND PSYCHOSOPHY PART 5

Finally, we've made it. Now we are to the myth busters section! This is probably the part those of you who are not part of the Personality Database fan club have been waiting for. Here's the Personality Database and Tik Tok myths I have debunked , as well as thinks Afansayev, Rob Zeke and others believed, that my experiment proved are not the case. Mind you, a lot of typology creators do not have good knowledge of other typology systems, and have their biases and make mistakes.

Even, as much as I've talked about them, Marston and Jung both made mistakes. Marston thought that S and I, and D and C were conscious/unconscious pairs; but Jung's theory disproves that, and proves that the conscious/unconscious pairs are actually S and D, and I and C. Jung believed that some traits were associated with introversion/extroversion; but Marston's theory disproves that, and proves Jung should have been associating those traits with the 4 functions instead.

So now that I'm laying that out there, don't get mad if I say your favorite typology system creator was wrong about something.

>Myth #1: all those gatekept MBTI/Enneagram combos you see. I'm just going to let you read this, for that myth. I think it shows sufficiently that the gatekept combinations are a myth:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Enneagram/comments/1558xxi/what_they_say_on_personality_database_vs_what/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=2&utm_content=1

You will have to copy and paste the link into your browser. Tumblr doesn't like it, for some reason 🙄

>Myth #2: Enneagram to Psychosohpy correlations

This is wrong in 2 ways. First, as I found in my experiment, Enneagram has very little to do with Psychosophy. Also, they say that Psychotypes can have varying dominant instinctual variants, when my experiment proved that Psychotypes can only have 1 dominant instinctual variant per type, however the core can vary

>Myth #3: "The Volition aspect represents extroversion in Psychosophy "

Apparently, this was something Afansayev said, but once again, remember how I said that a lot of the typology creators don't know too much about other typology systems. He obviously didn't know much about Jung's theory, because my experiment showed that the Volition aspect represents Jung's intuition function; not his extroverted attitude

>Myth #4: " Attiduinal Psyche is a watered down version of Psychosophy "

My experiment proved that Attiduinal Psyche is only slightly looser than Psychosophy; that's so that Attiduinal Psyche will type everybody, not just a few. For most types, Attiduinal Psyche only included the Psychotype, plus 1 to 3 other SOJT types that were closely related to the SOJT type of the people with the Psychotype; in my experiment. The only types that expanded beyond 4 SOJT types were the ones where the representative of the Psychotype in Afansayev's book had an ambiverted SOJT type, in which case, the Psychotypes cast a wider net to begin with.

>Myth #5: "VELF is a versatile type that can be any Enneagram or MBTI type"

This is because Rob Zeke has a bias toward the type VELF. In my experiment I found that VELF, just like all but 6 of the 24 AP types, has a very specific set of types that make up over 90% of the cases. MBTI types: ISFJ, ISFP, INFJ and INFP; Enneagram cores: 4, 5, 6 and 9; were nearly 100% of the statistics. Needless to say those MBTI types are part of the S quadrant of DISC, which contains 40% of the human population. *That's* probably why it's so common, not versatility.

By contrast, in my experiment, the 6 Psychotypes represented by ambiverts were the most versatile. Half of them could be 9 of the 17 SOJT type families in the experiment, and most Enneagram cores, as a result. Those were EFLV, FEVL and FLVE. The other 3 could be any of the 17 SOJT type families, or have any of the 9 Enneagram cores. They were: VFEL, FVEL and FLEV. Those are the 3 most flexible types in AP, right there, and VELF is not one of them.

>Myth #6: "If you're having trouble typing someone, they're probably VELF"

Once again, this is Rob Zeke's VELF bias. The reality is, in the experiment I did, I had many people who were hard to type, but none of them were VELF. These were the usual hard-to-type outcomes:

Well, that's it. I'm now going to get back to my Typing In Practice Posts. I hope to complete them all before my wedding, which looks like it will be happening before the year is out.

STUDY NOTES POST #7: SOJT TYPE RELATIONSHIPS TO THE ENNEAGRAM, ATTIDUINAL PSYCHE AND PSYCHOSOPHY PART 4

This is the section where I talk more extensively about the correlations that I derived from my study.

Basically, I listed all the Enneagram cores, dominant instinctual variants, tritypes, AP types and PY types (the AP types with an *) that I found for each SOJT type family, here:

Note: there is a mistake on here: there was no E2 Ne-f. It turns out, there was not enough information to type the E2 person correctly in DISC or SOJT; however there was plenty enough in Enneagram and Attiduinal Psyche. With her Enneagram and Attitudinal Psyche results, I was able to conclude the E2 person actually belongs in the Fe-s type family

Then I also made this graph that shows how the PY types expanded to become AP types in my study:

Note how in Enneagram, Attiduinal Psyche and Psychosophy, Undifferentiated Attitude is its own type, with its own unique set of results. So people with undifferentiated attitude SOJT types were not included in their respective type families for this study. However, all other SOJT types were.

Also, note the people who say AP is watered down PY. It's not. It's a Psychosophy inspired typology that types everyone, rather than just 35% of people. And when you look at Diagram 11, you see that most types, even when they expanded for AP, didn't expand too far beyond the PY perimeters. Only 3 of the "Undifferentiated Attitude " PY types expanded to include anybody as a possibility, and the "Undifferentiated Attitude " PY types cast a wider net as a PY type to begin with.

The next part, and last part of this study, is going to be the fun part, and I will call it "Mythbusters" , and show all the typology myths my study busted-and there's a lot. So stay tuned

STUDY NOTES POST #6 : SOJT TYPE RELATIONSHIPS TO THE ENNEAGRAM, ATTIDUINAL PSYCHE AND PSYCHOSOPHY PART 3

This explains how I typed each of the 200 dream people in AP and PY, and shows what the results were.

First, I typed the people in Attiduinal Psyche. Then , after I had typed a bunch of people, I noticed trends starting to emerge, for instance, all my Se-f sx3s were EFVL. In those particular instances, I went further with those people to see if they met the energy and defense mechanisms requirements to have the PY type. If they did, I turned to Afansayev's book, " The Syntax of Love ", and typed the main person Afansayev had representing the type in both SOJT and Enneagram. An interesting thing was a vast majority of the time, the person in Afansayev's book had the same SOJT type and temperament as the people who had the PY type. They also had the same Enneagram dominant instinctual variant, even though, a lot of times, they didn't have the same Enneagram core. That was when I came to the realization that Enneagram core doesn't determine whether or not a person has a PY type at all. You see all these misguided correlation charts for Enneagram and PY online, talking as if only certain Enneagram cores can be certain PY types. I'd hate to tell them, but the emphasis they're putting on the cores is completely wrong. Cores have little to nothing in determining if a person has a PY type, and what it is .

My study revealed that the biggest determining factors as to if you have a PY type, and what it is are: 1. Your SOJT type, 2. Your dominant instinctual variant, 3. Your primary temperament as derived from here:

I found that the people who matched Afansayev's type representatives on all 3 of those factors had the PY type. More similarities with the Enneagram made it even more obvious the person had the PY type, but people with less similarities in the Enneagram had it too. That points to, once again, how little Enneagram actually matters.

Here was evidence I gathered in my study. I will be talking about some additional stuff in the next post, where I'll be talking about correlations more specifically, but here's some good, interesting, compiled statistics:

As you can see, only about 35% of my sample had PY types. That is consistent with statistics I've heard from Rob Zeke, the creator of Attiduinal Psyche.

Anyway, that's all for now, and I'll be back soon with the 4th post in this study, where I actually reveal the correlations I came up with for Enneagram, Attiduinal Psyche and Psychosophy

STUDY NOTES POST # 4: STUDY OF SOJT TYPE RELATIONSHIPS TO THE ENNEAGRAM, ATTIDUINAL PSYCHE AND PSYCHOSOPHY PT 1: INTRODUCTION TO THE STUDY, SOURCES AND DEFINITIONS

Hello, everyone. I finally completed my study of how SOJT types relate to the 3 systems mentioned above. It was such a detailed study that covered so much ground I'm breaking it down into several different sections, and posts. This section will be an introductory section.

How I did the study: Remember the 200 people from my dreams who I typed in study #2 for the Jungian types? I went back and typed all those people in the Enneagram, Attiduinal Psyche and Psychosophy. I followed all the rules spelled out in my sources to assure I was typing people correctly.

My sources were as follows:

Enneagram core-common knowlede

Enneagram wings and instinctual variants- The Dynamic Enneagram by Tom Condon

Enneagram Tritypes-Katharine Fauvre's website

Attitudinal Psyche-the Attitudinal Psyche website

Psychosophy-The Syntax of Love by Afansayev

I do want to explain a few terms you will see me use in this study:

Attitudinal Psyche type or AP type: when I mention that a person has an AP type, that means that they have the functions in the preference order indicated; the first is confident, second is open, third is insecure, fourth is unbothered. Most people only have this kind of a type, and *don't* have a Psychotype or PY type

Psychotype or PY type: if a person's oderof energy levels from the functions and use of the functions as defense mechanisms matches the order of the functions generated from their AP type, *then, and only then,* do they have a Psychotype or a PY type. I made a graphic that illustrates this well:

Christian was an Se-f sx3

Tim was an Fe-s sx2

Simplfied Original Jungian Typology (SOJT) types: An SOJT type is a very specific differentiation pattern that lists every Jungian function that ever appears as conscious in a person

Simplified Original Jungian Typology (SOJT) type family: the fully differentiated type, as well as any variations of it *

*in this study, however, the SOJT type families do *not* include the undifferentiated attitude variant. Thatis because in their internal workings, the Enneagram, Attiduinal Psyche and Psychosophy all recognize ambiversion as separate from extroversion and introversion. So most everyone with an undifferentiated attitude had similar results in Enneagram, Attiduinal Psyche, and Psychosophy; that were different from the other SOJT type families. So I had ,for this study, a 17th type family: the Undifferentiated Attitude family.

So I typed the 200 in Enneagram and Attiduinal Psyche first. If I spotted trends , such as all my Se-f sx3s getting EFVL, I then checked to see if the "trend" people checked out in PY. Nearly 100% of the time they did. Then I read the type description provided by Afansayev in his book, typing his main representative for the type in SOJT and in the Enneagram. Here's what I came up with:

Before I go any further with this study, I want to say I was absolutely shocked 😲 by a lot of the results, but not so much by others. A lot of you might have your tail feathers ruffled a lot, because the evidence of the study contradicts theories going around on Personality Database, Tick Tok , and other places; proving those theories false. So buckle up and prepare for a bumpy ride!

ANNOUNCEMENT: TYPING EXAMPLES FROM "THE SYNTAX OF LOVE " BY AFANSAYEV IN SOJT

As part of my ongoing theory that every typology riddle can be solved through the use of DISC, SOJT and the Big 5; I noticed that some of my testing subjects were the same type in both Attiduinal Psyche and Psychosohpy. So I'm reading "The Syntax of Love ".

I'm finding out in most cases it's because my testing subjects ( the 200 dream people) have the same high instinct and core type in Enneagram as Afansayev's example person for his Psychosohpy type. For example, I found out that all my sx3s were typing as EFVL in both Attiduinal Psyche and Psychosohpy. I then read Afansayev's example of an EFVL in Psychosohpy, Pushkin. And lo and behold, Pushkin was an sx3.

I found this to be true for all the types that had the same Attiduinal Psyche and Psychosohpy types, except in one instance: VLEF. In that instance, they had the same SOJT type and Big5-derived Greek Temperament Blend.

But neither here nor there, the reason I'm writing this is because I am going to add any typings in SOJT I was successful in doing, to the list of typings, but because there's so many of them, I'm not going to do Typing In Practice Posts for them, so I am just going to create a symbol, that will represent "mass typings from The Syntax of Love", and put it by them

By the way, I actually have a few " Typing in Practice" posts waiting in the wings. Look for "Typing in Practice " posts on Barack Obama, George Michael, Tionne Watkins (T-Boz) and Tina Turner

ANNOUNCEMENT: MY NEXT PROJECT

Hi, everyone. I'm sure you've noticed how I'm adding additional typologies to the bottom of my True Types posts. This is actually part of my next project, which was to do the same thing with the Enneagram and Attiduinal Psyche that I did with the MBTI.

That, basically, is to use at least one of the 3 typing systems that are consistently considered accurate, reliable and valid (DISC, SOJT and the Big 5) to figure out someone's Enneagram and Attiduinal Psyche types.

So I have recently started typing the people from my dreams all over again-this time in Enneagram and Attiduinal Psyche. I am looking for trends that develop, so that I know which of the 3 trustworthy systems I could use to type people in Enneagram and Attiduinal Psyche. So far, it looks like it would be a combination of your MBTI type (obtained from comparing your DISC and SOJT results) and your Greek Temperament Blend ( obtained from a surprisingly accurate correlation I found between the Big 5 and the 4 Greek Temperaments in January) for both of them.

I have already found some

MBTI +Greek Temperament Blend = AP type

and

MBTI +Greek Temperament Blend = Enneagram

correlations, so I think I'm on the right track.

I'll get back when I have typed all 200 dream people in Enneagram and Attiduinal Psyche, and I'll let you know what I've discovered