True Personality Typing

STUDY NOTES POST #5: SOJT TYPE RELATIONS TO THE ENNEAGRAM, ATTIDUINAL PSYCHE AND PSYCHOSOPHY PART 2: THE ENNEAGRAM

Right now, I'm only going to talk about typing my 200 dream people, I had previously typed in SOJT, in the Enneagram.

The first thing I did was figure out the cores of at least one person per SOJT type. In some cases, it was obvious that more than one core was represented within a SOJT type. In those cases, every person I felt might have a different core than the first, I typed their core as well.

I was able to confirm my core typings using "The Dynamic Enneagram " by Tom Condon. Even though the main purpose of using " The Dynamic Enneagram " was to type the instinctual variants and wings, it also proved useful in confirming that the cores. How? If the core was correct, I would very easily be able to identify the wing and instinctual variants of the person involved. However, if the core was wrong, the wings and instinctual variants made no sense at all for the person, or I found myself stretching what Tom Condon actually wrote to make them fit.

So, anyway, I eventually got some Enneagram cores that became "usual suspects " for SOJT t type families, and toward the end of the study, I would check and see if people from a particular SOJT type family had one of the usual suspects as an Enneagram core, before I would test them for a new one. However, if none of the usual suspects fit, then I *did* test them for their own Enneagram core.

I also associated the Enneagram cores, wings, and instinctual variants with primary temperaments, based on their likely Big 5 results. For more information on how to figure out people's primary and secondary temperaments from the Big 5, see here:

The results were as follows:

The study results proved a lot of things some authors said about the Enneagram are right, but some are wrong. I will talk about those in Post number 4 on this study.

One last thing I want to mention though, before I start making any kind of correlations between SOJT and the Enneagram is this: SOJT is a third typology descended from Jung, and it has its own unique definitions of the functions and type descriptions, so don't shoot me if my SOJT to Enneagram correlations are different than Naranjo's MBTI to Enneagram correlations. You have to realize that different systems will correlate differently to the Enneagram, even if they're based on the same thing. Now we'll more on to post number 3 on thus study, which was me figuring out AP and PY types for the dream people, and what the results were

ANNOUNCEMENT: MY NEXT PROJECT

Hi, everyone. I'm sure you've noticed how I'm adding additional typologies to the bottom of my True Types posts. This is actually part of my next project, which was to do the same thing with the Enneagram and Attiduinal Psyche that I did with the MBTI.

That, basically, is to use at least one of the 3 typing systems that are consistently considered accurate, reliable and valid (DISC, SOJT and the Big 5) to figure out someone's Enneagram and Attiduinal Psyche types.

So I have recently started typing the people from my dreams all over again-this time in Enneagram and Attiduinal Psyche. I am looking for trends that develop, so that I know which of the 3 trustworthy systems I could use to type people in Enneagram and Attiduinal Psyche. So far, it looks like it would be a combination of your MBTI type (obtained from comparing your DISC and SOJT results) and your Greek Temperament Blend ( obtained from a surprisingly accurate correlation I found between the Big 5 and the 4 Greek Temperaments in January) for both of them.

I have already found some

MBTI +Greek Temperament Blend = AP type

and

MBTI +Greek Temperament Blend = Enneagram

correlations, so I think I'm on the right track.

I'll get back when I have typed all 200 dream people in Enneagram and Attiduinal Psyche, and I'll let you know what I've discovered

BIG 5 POST #2: HOW THE BIG 5 CORRELATES TO THE 4 GREEK TEMPERAMENTS

Here's some correlations I found a few months ago between the Big 5 and the 4 Greek Temperaments:

I then went through using the formula mentioned in the paragraph that says: Global 5 notation=temperament blend, and used it to create a quick correlation chart for all the 5 uppercase letter combinations. Here's what I came up with:

SLOAN-Choleric/Sanguine

SCOAN-Choleric/Phlegmatic

SLOAI-Sanguine/Choleric

SCOAI-Sanguine/Melancholy

SLUAN-Sanguine/Choleric or Sanguine/Phlegmatic

SCUAN-Sanguine/Phlegmatic

SLUAI-Sanguine Dominant

SCUAI-Sanguine/Phlegmatic

SLOEN-Choleric Dominant

SCOEN-Choleric/Melancholy

SLOEI-Choleric/Melancholy or Choleric/Sanguine

SCOEI-Choleric/Melancholy

SLUEN-Choleric/Sanguine

SCUEN-Choleric/Phlegmatic

SLUEI-Sanguine/Choleric

SCUEI-Sanguine/Melancholy

RLOAN-Phlegmatic/Choleric

RCOAN-Phlegmatic/Melancholy

RLOAI-Melancholy/Sanguine

RCOAI-Melancholy/Phlegmatic

RLUAN-Phlegmatic/Sanguine

RCUAN-Phlegmatic Dominant

RLUAI-Phlegmatic/Sanguine

RCUAI-Phlegmatic/Melancholy or Phlegmatic/Sanguine

RLOEN-Melancholy/Choleric

RCOEN-Melancholy/Choleric or Melancholy/Phlegmatic

RLOEI-Melancholy/Choleric

RCOEI-Melancholy Dominant

RLUEN-Phlegmatic/Choleric

RCUEN-Phlegmatic/Melancholy

RLUEI-Melancholy/Sanguine

RCUEI-Melancholy/Phlegmatic

I hope this is helpful to you

DISC POST #3: DISC AND THE 4 GREEK TEMPERAMENTS ARE NOT THE SAME

A lot of people in the 4 Greek Temperaments community, particularly Tim La Haye, are guilty of this one, in saying that the 4 Greek Temperaments are the same as DISC, and they try to equivocate their methods to DISC. There is no equivalency between the two methods whatsoever, except for maybe the 4 quadrants.

First, of all, to start off, they measure completely different things. The 4 Greek Temperaments (also known as the 4 Humors) measures *social* extroversion and introversion on one access, and neuroticism and stability on the other:

DISC, on the other hand , measures *Jungian* extroversion and introversion on one axis (written as outgoing /reserved, or fast/slow), and Jungian thinking and Jungian feeling on the other (written as task oriented/people oriented).

Considering that they don't even measure the same things, that might explain why DISC has a 97% accuracy and reliability rating from People Keys, whereas the 4 Greek Temperaments have a 43% accuracy and reliability rating! 😯

Knowing this, one wonders why the MBTI community would tell you to use the 4 Greek Temperaments to confirm your type rather than DISC. 🤔 It actually makes sense though, since Briggs Myers is so loaded with inaccuracies and unreliable results, they don't want you to find out you're mistyped, so they encourage you to use methods even less accurate than the MBTI to confirm your result. It's all a money making game. They know if you use something more accurate, like DISC,, to confirm your type, you will quit using the MBTI. And their only goal is to sell the MBTI. They don't care if you're typed correctly or not.

Well, what about Tim La Haye?, you ask. I have read Tim La Haye's book, " Why You Act The Way You Do ", which is excerpts from his book , "The Spirit-Controlled Temperament ". He bases a lot of his correlations with Bible characters from "Understanding How Others Misunderstand You ", a book on DISC, by Ken Voges and Ron Braund. Voges and Braund describe Bible characters with behavior traits that actually sound like the characters. Tim La Haye , on the other hand, describes the character as being a temperament blend he wants to correlate with a DISC profile, but then the behavior traits he associates with the temperament blend don't describe the behavior of the Bible character at all! 😯

What about the MBTI's correlations between the 4 Greek Temperaments and Kiersey?, you might ask.🤔 Well, first of all, those correlations make a very bad assumption that Hippocrates' 4 Humors and Plato's 4 temperaments (off of which Kiersey is based), are the same. I have read about this, and they were actually 2 different temperament theories, so they are *not* the same!😯

And even if they were the same, I don't agree with the MBTI's correlations, for one very important reason: the mirrors are not opposite each other. If the correlations were correct, they would be. Let's take ESFP (Se-f), as an example. In Jungian typology, Se-f's functions are Se-Fe-Ti-Ni. Therefore, the mirror of Se-f would be Ni-t, whose functions are Ni-Ti-Fe-Se. That's who should be opposite of ESFP in the 4 Greek Temperaments correlations. Well, that's not who the MBTI has opposite them. Instead, it's Si-t or Ti-s, depending on how you look at things (ISTJ) 🤔 That's weird 🤔

Take a look at DISC, on the other hand. The layout of the profiles on the wheel is not very symmetrical, sadly😥. So I made this quick correlation chart. Every DISC quadrant has 4 of the 16 personalities, one primary, one on the left, one in the middle, and one on the right. When you look at it, every Jungian mirror is opposite each other, and considering what I said in the last article, that DISC considered IJs to be judging dominant and IPs to be perceiving dominant, the Briggs Myers mirrors are opposite each other as well:

So hopefully, now, you understand the differences between the 4 Greek Temperaments and DISC, that they are not the same thing, and that DISC is, for sure, the more accurate and reliable of the two.

DISC POST #1: IS IT, OR IS IT NOT, A DISC ASSESSMENT?

Ok, this is a good place to start writing about DISC, because there are a lot of things out there that claim to be DISC assessments, and aren't, in just the same way 16Personalities.com is not the MBTI; it's actually the Big 5.

I would say to visit the profiles on the official DISC to get an idea of whether a DISC assessment is real or not. Here's a link:

https://www.discprofiles4u.com/blog/2012/disc-classic-profile-persuader-pattern-7-of-16/

Look at the profiles, and learn the unique characteristics of each one.

Now, here's ways you can tell if a DISC assessment is really a DISC assessment or not :

It's not actually a DISC assessment if:

1. It doesn't use the 15 DISC profiles that are part of the original DISC.

2. It uses social extroversion vs. social introversion and neuroticism vs. stability as dichotomies. This is actually a 4 Greek Temperaments test, using the DISC letters to represent Greek temperaments. This is a false correlation between the two systems, as I will explain in DISC post #2.

3. It asks theororetical questions ( what would you do?) , and has multiple choice answers. Real DISC assessments are going to actually look much like this paper one,here:

They are just a bunch of adjectives that go across the page, and you rank them, 4 being most like you most often, to 1 being least like you least often. If any DISC test is not in this format, it's not an actual DISC assessment

4. It associates other behavior traits with DISC profiles that the original DISC does not. Once again, this is probably a 4 Greek Temperaments test disguised as a DISC assessment. There are a lot of those out there.

I think these are the most likely things you'll find that scream, "I'm not really a DISC assessment ". But there may be others. If you run across others, let me know, and I'll add them to this post

INTRODUCTION

Welcome all to my page.

Let me introduce myself. I am not going to include my actual name, or any identifying information about me, but I will say I am a middle aged person, who's been interested in typology for self improvement and group dynamics reasons since I was a teenager.

The personality typing method I have the most experience with is DISC, which I have used for nearly 25 years. I also have experience, or am familiar with many other typing methods, including Jungian typology, the Big 5, Briggs Myers, Socionics, the 4 Humors, and the Enneagram. I'm going to not reveal my type anywhere on this blog, except in my ratings of methods and tests. Obviously, there I will have to. But I don't want this blog to be about me. I want it to be about you getting to know yourself and others through the resources I provide

I will tell a little bit about my background here. I was first introduced to personality typing at the age of 13. I had already been through puberty, and was socially mature for my age, so I definitely don't feel like I got started too early. It was with Tim La Haye and the 4 Greek Temperaments, aka. the 4 Humors. I actually found my study of the 4 Humors very confusing, and hard to comprehend. The people Tim La Haye described sounded more like theories than people, to be honest. The first personality typing test I ever took was the Tim La Haye Temperament Test that was included in one of his books. And it also ended up being my first experience being mistyped. About 5 years later, a certified Tim La Haye practitioner, who went to a church, where I was a part of the college campus ministry, typed me correctly. He said he honestly couldn't understand how the test mistyped me, but still seemed to be sympathetic to my story.

Then, when I was 25, I was in a Christian bookstore, and I saw a book called, "Understanding How Others Misunderstand You ". I opened the book, and at first, thought it was another 4 Humors book, but it was not. It was actually about another typing method, called DISC. Right away, I found DISC a lot easier to comprehend than the 4 Humors, and the people in the DISC book seemed a lot more real than theororetical. So I bought the book, and I studied the book through and through. I noticed pretty early on that DISC was actually considerably different than the 4 Humors, and much more real. My nearly 25 years of loyalty to DISC started with me buying that book

My first intro into Briggs Myers came a few years later, in the early 2000's, when I was at a church women's event, and one of the speakers at the event encouraged me to read Kiersey's book, "Please Understand Me 2". I read the book, and I could almost immediately clearly identify myself as one of Kiersey's main types (guardians, artisans, rationals and idealists). I couldn't get any further than that, though. In 2007, I took what would end up being the first of many Briggs Myers tests I took over a 4 year period. I got a mistype on my first test, snd I knew it was a mistype, because it did not match up with the Kiersey type I had identified myself belonging to. So over the next 4 years, I took several different Briggs Myers tests, both dichotomy and function tests, and couldn't get the same result twice. I literally gave up on ever finding the truth about my Briggs Myers type

Then, I read Workplace ratings for Briggs Myers. I found they were not very high. However, Workplace did give significantly higher ratings to DISC and the Big 5. In 2009, I had taken 2 tests: my first DISC assessment and my first Big 5-and, go figure, like a good girl, I had saved my results for both! I then looked at the Big 5 results, and lo and behold, they had been correlated with a Briggs Myers type that was a part of my Kiersey type! I then tried to figure out if my DISC result correlated with the same Briggs Myers type. I had to do a few years of study and research to figure it out, but yes, my DISC result did, in fact, correlate to the same Briggs Myers type as my Big 5. But before I was going to say that the Briggs Myers type that correlated with those results was, in fact , my type, I wanted to get the same result twice on both DISC and the Big 5. So I took both tests again, years later, with different companies, and got nearly identical results. So I accepted the Briggs Myers type that both my DISC and Big 5 results correlated with as my Briggs Myers type. Notice how ultimately, I found out my Briggs Myers type by not even taking a Briggs Myers test, but rather, by focusing on other, more reliable, methods, and seeing how they correlated with Briggs Myers 😮

I first took an Enneagram test in 2015, I believe. Then I took it again last year. My 3 highest numbers were the same both times, and last year, I figured out what my enneagram was, by following the directions on the test

I also started learning about Socionics in 2020 and Jungian typology (SOJT) last year. I am not as well versed in them, as a result. But I can tell you that Jungian typology (SOJT) is the only typing method coming obviously out of Jung's work that Workplace gives a good rating to. It gives bad ratings to Briggs Myers and Socionics

So after that story, now I hope you can see where I intend to go with this blog. I will be talking about how to use the only 3 of all the methods I mentioned, that got at least a 60% (passing) rating from Workplace, to type yourself and others. Those methods are: DISC with a 97% Workplace rating, Jungian typology with an 80% Workplace rating, and the Big 5, with a 78% Workplace rating. I'm also going to look at Enneagram, because I think its Workplace rating would probably pass if people simply read the test instructions. I'm going to pass Enneagram on my reviews, anyway

The other methods, for obvious reasons, will not get good reviews from me, and I will not talk about them extensively outside of the review section, like I will the others.

And one last side note: I had a pediatric stroke, and 2 things I have as a result of that stroke are cerebral palsy and dyslexia. The dyslexia definitely affects my writing. So sometimes things might not flow, and I might not choose the best wording. Please understand that about me, as you read this blog.

Happy reads to you all, and I hope you learn a lot. Let's get typing!